Welcome to Built by Margin, the podcast where strategy meets the spreadsheet. I'm your host, Laurie Chen, fractional CFO and tax strategist, here to help you make smarter financial decisions, build a profitable business, and keep more of what you earn. Let's dive into the numbers that actually move the needle. Hey guys, welcome to the Built by Margin podcast. I'm really excited to have Robyn Penner Thiessen here today. She's going to tell us more about her entrepreneurial journey as a leadership consultant and coach. So Robyn, can you tell us more about when you started your business and what inspired you to start your business?

Laurie Chen

Sure. Thanks, Laurie. Thanks for having me here. I appreciate it a lot. I started this consulting about two and a half years ago. And prior to that, I hadn't been an entrepreneur at all. I'd always worked. I was human resources, you know, my background. And I just had this real I guess, vision of working with companies and working with leaders with a very specific purpose that I had been doing, like supporting leaders to more effectively lead their teams. And I wanted to do it like on my own full time. So it was sort of felt at the time, like jumping off a cliff. You know, I didn't know that much about what was what I was doing or how to build my own company. But yeah, it was about two and a half years ago. I just jumped in with both feet. And here we are.

Robyn Penner Thiessen

Wow, that only two and a half years ago. So what were you doing before that?

Laurie Chen

For about 10 years, my most recent work was with an international relief and development organization that worked around the world. So I did a lot of traveling to Asia, South America, Africa, and the teams were incredibly diverse. So we'd have offices or regions, and there was a lot of complexity there. So my role was HR, But a lot of primarily what I focused on was, you know, guiding supervisors, directors, managers, as they were facing a lot of complexity, a lot of challenges. As we all know, it's the people in the business that create the most challenges. The work would go smoothly if it wasn't for all the complicated people. So that was I did a lot of like training and coaching and working with them but that was yeah the 10 years before that's where I really became very passionate about sort of seeing that with a little bit of. Skill development, like more awareness around like who's on your team and how are they showing up and what are the different identities, perspectives, like that can really help a leader just know how to be more effective. And they were bumbling along or there was lots of communication breakdowns. So I started to really see how I could support teams and support leaders in that work.

What was the name of the organization?

MCC. It's just a yeah, it's a it's international. They have a head office in Canada and one in the US. So I was like MCC Canada was where I worked out of their head office is actually Winnipeg, which is where I'm located myself.

Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah, because I have some international organization work through World Vision International. So yes, I'm very familiar with the nonprofit humanitarian industry.

Super similar, like organization, but much smaller. So we all know World Vision, Red Crot, like there's all the ones, Medicine Without Borders, or Doctors Without Borders, like there's the ones that are more familiar. I would say this is probably on a smaller scale, so not quite as widely known.

Okay, got it. Great. So, so when you started your business, what, what are some challenges that you faced, both from just starting a business standpoint, and also from a financial standpoint, what are some things that were really challenging for you?

Well, so many things because what I knew was like how to do the work, the coaching, the training, the program, but it was like running the business that was so new. So like pricing, how to talk about, like create my services specifically. I mean, everything on the bookkeeping side, the accounting side. I mean, not that I was, you know, we were managing our own budget in our home, but I wasn't really, had never kind of looked at sort of that bigger picture of running a business, even though maybe I had a budget even in my previous role, but it was very different. So lots of steep learning curves. Yeah, I would say marketing. my services and my bookkeeping and accounting. What else is there in a business? I would say probably all of those things were kind of new things to learn.

So do you still do those things yourself or do you outsource or hire someone external to help you with that now?

So pretty early on, I hired a bookkeeper. So I do have QuickBooks and I manage some of it myself. Like I there's I don't have it fully handed over, but I did know that that was an area that I needed support. I think everything else I still like the marketing I do myself. Yeah, like I'm mostly a one person. I have some, you know, part time like subcontractors that I work with a little bit. I have a very part time virtual assistant that helps me with a little bit of administrative things, but most of it I'm still a one-person operation.

Okay. So yeah, I mean, that makes sense. You know, learning your own QuickBooks and setting up, that can be very challenging for a first-time business owner. You know, even professional accountants have trouble with QuickBooks sometimes. And so one thing that I found that is very useful is doing YouTube videos, YouTube how-tos on certain aspects of QuickBooks online accounting. So that's a little tidbit for you. If anything, you're like, I don't know how to reconcile this, or I don't know how to record this deposit. That has always helped me. It's interesting that you bring up a virtual assistant, hiring virtual assistant, because I see that virtually all new business owners end up making their first hire, and that first hire should be either a virtual assistant or executive administrative assistant. So how did you find your assistant and how has it been working out for you?

Yeah, no, great topic. And I mean, I will say it. And I think like I've read Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell. And that's really comes through in his book of like, replace, you know, like have someone save you time in certain areas. So that's definitely been sort of the mindset or the approach that I've wanted to take so that I can build my business. but I was actually talking to a friend about saying I need an assistant like do you know of any and this person is an executive assistant for a different organization and so I was just talking to her about like I don't even know where to start and so my first hire was she said I'll do it so She was actually a friend who was an executive assistant in an organization and I just needed someone like pretty part time. So she mostly worked like evenings and weekends or during her coffee break. So that was, that's how I found her. I, I think that when I hire like a more full-time or just a larger position, um, like it'll be another, a different process for sure. But do you have a VA or have you, how was your process? I'd be curious.

Yeah, I've had a VA, I've had a part-time assistant and finding them through Upwork is usually the way to go. Yeah, I think having a VA is so important for doing mundane tasks like, you know, setting up your calendar, booking calls, doing like simple marketing tasks. So I absolutely do think having that first hire be your VA is very crucial to allowing you to have more time to focus on the things that you're passionate about in your business, right? For me, it's crunching the numbers, it's strategizing with clients, it's talking with them about their cash flow. So like all things that you have to like be very, very familiar with their books, very familiar with their financials. And that takes time. And so if I can offload, you know, simple tasks to my VA, then that's really the way to go to give me more, more time for me to work on numbers.

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I can tell like, she only is very limited availability, because like I said, she's got this other, you know, very consuming job. And so I can tell that it's not far off that I'll need to probably start with someone that's like, willing to give me a little more time each week just to kind of manage things. But so just for the initial kind of startup, it was such a relief just to have someone that's like, okay, I'll come I'll help you. And so it was a good start.

Yeah, that's great. So in terms of business planning, so you said you started your business two and a half years ago. When you started, did you have a business plan? And if you did, how does that business plan compare from the initial setup to now two and a half years later? Do you feel like you're meeting your forecast?

Okay, well now, so I'll just have to be really honest. I didn't have a formal business plan. I had an idea, a business idea. So again, probably not the ideal way to do it, but what I, I knew I could help people. And I thought I'll figure it out as I go. Is that a great strategy? I don't know, it's been working. So I, for sure, the first year was like just trying to figure things out. I took advantage of their programs, often funded, like pretty affordable, like for women entrepreneurs, like by the local chamber or by the government. So I took some of those, like starting up a business programs, which were really supportive and helped me learn a lot. and so I usually followed those steps when they would say you know develop an elevator pitch or here's your services like I try to take advantage of some of those programs and courses to get my business more established and I would say I'm continuing to like adjust and refine it but yeah so I would say it started like this kind of with like all of these different possibilities. And I'm more and more getting like, okay, this is really where my kind of niches are my sweet spot. But I but overall, it's kind of on the same path. The path is just getting more focused.

Okay, excellent. Yeah, I mean, I think it's great. Not, I mean, I would say most people are not following their business plan. Most people don't even follow their financial forecast because, you know, a lot of it is grounded in assumptions and they're not even following their financial plan. I would say 50% business owners out there. So I think the fact that you're evolving your plan as you go, I think that's the way to go, honestly.

Oh good, good, good. I thought maybe there would be judgment because I should have a business planning space and I feel a bit embarrassed that it's I'm sure it's a business plan but it's not like following like if I would need to apply for a bank loan or something I know I would have something or get funding but so far I haven't so

Exactly. No, I think, I think it makes sense to, well, I think it makes sense to have at least some kind of idea of where you want to go, like number of clients, like what your, what your focus is, and then evolve it from there. And so I think that's, that's what you've been doing. And it's helping you grow and see your business differently than if you had put it down onto paper.

it's yeah, it's maybe a little more organic. But it's staying really true. I mean, I also when I started my business, I'll say that I really believe in sort of co creating it with the universe, if I can kind of be a little woo. So I've also tried to like, be listening and leaning in and open to kind of like, okay, where's this? And I am not just entirely like wide open, I do have some very specific, you know, goals and strategies, but kind of holding them also in conversation with like, where am I feeling? How am I feeling led or guided into certain areas? So that's been kind of part of my business plan, I guess, is I co-create with the universe.

I love that. Yeah. It's co-creating or attracting what it is in the universe that you want. I think that's what Dan Martell would say, you know, it's more about attracting. Yeah. But I absolutely agree with co-creating that that's kind of more of the classic philosophy of how you see things.

Yeah.

What about taxes? So you're Canadian. So how has the tax aspect of running a business been challenging for you? How did you make sure that you're staying compliant with all the tax laws and regulations?

Yeah, I mean, and we're right in tax season right now. So good question. In fact, I just delivered all my, or had my papers delivered this morning to an accountant. So I have an accountant to help me for sure. And then the bookkeeper that I work with has been really good at sort of, you know, keeping everything up to date and making sure everything was completed for 2024, the parts. There's parts that I still am probably not, like I still wonder about, like things because I work out of my home. Are there other things that I could be claiming as write-offs? That's kind of an ongoing learning how to be most efficient with that. I'm so grateful for the bookkeeper, for sure, because I think that she's sort of kept me up to date. If I had to like now sometime January, February, March be like getting all my receipts and like looking at all my expenses for 2024, that would have been very overwhelming. And I could imagine because that's not my natural, that's not my strength is to be like really paying attention to receipt tracking or whatever it is, like making sure everything's reconciled. that would be a bit of a disaster if I managed it on my own. So that's one thing that's helped. I did also take a kind of financially, it's called financially fierce. course to help, and it's specifically geared to women in business, but I think it's open to anybody like that very early on to help me understand the financial side of the business. And then we talked about, like, taxes. So one of the things I do that I'm really grateful for, and I don't know how these numbers compared to the US, but from that course, they said to always put 20% into a holding account for taxes. So whenever I have like revenue come in, I just automatically put 20% into my tax account. So we'll see now, like when I get my tax bill, like what, how does that all, I'm a sole proprietor. That's the other thing. I don't know if that matters, but in terms of how I manage the finances, I'm not incorporated. And that worked very well last year. Like for sure, I had exactly like what I needed. I probably had a little extra. So there was no stress around that, like getting my tax bill. but finger crossed that it's gonna be the same this year.

Oh, that's a really smart strategy and you're doing better than 90% of other business owners out there because 90% of other business owners out there do not have a separate bank account for taxes and that they're setting aside for taxes because in the Profit First, I don't know if you've read the book Profit First, but it talks about allocating, opening up separate bank accounts and then allocating taxes, operating expenses, payroll, profits into separate accounts so that you're not tempted to overspend or put yourself in a bad cashflow situation. So it's very similar to what you're doing with the taxes. You're setting aside your taxes so that you're not gonna be, you're not gonna owe at tax time.

You know what, Laurie, that's actually exactly what I have. Those four accounts are what I sent through that program. So it must have been based or informed to some extent from that book. Yeah, I didn't know that that was from that book, but I try to every time I have like money coming in, I sort of divvy it up between those accounts with a certain formula.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, there's a formula to allocate. And so, like I said, you're doing better than 90% of other business owners out there because you have that strategy in place. And as you grow, as your business grows, as your profits grow, you've already set up a great system for yourself so that you're able to manage your cash flow better, you're able to manage your taxes better. So that's awesome that you're already doing that.

Thanks. Just out of curiosity, like what percent, if you recommend your clients, if they're based in the US, like, is there a certain percentage that typically you would say this is what should go into a tax account?

Yeah, so it depends on what tax bracket they're in. So based on your total taxable income for the year, wherever that falls in your tax bracket, that's what I would suggest you put away.

Yeah, because I know I feel like Canadian taxes are higher because of Medicare and various things. So I wondered if like for businesses, if that was different or maybe it's just personal taxes that are higher.

Yeah, something you could do is you could ask your tax accountant if they could run like an estimated tax bill for you for the year based on your current income. That way you can assess what that ideal percentage is for the tax and set that percentage aside for the year as you get more income in. Yeah, that's a good idea. I could check with him on that. Yeah, absolutely. So another. So that's great that you're doing that. Another common problem that I see with business owners, so proprietors, is that they have trouble finding the right tax accountant. How did you find yours? Because it sounds like you're you have a really good relationship and, you know, you're getting all your taxes done on time and there's no communication issues. But how would you what would you recommend to someone that's looking for a tax accountant?

Yeah, so I wouldn't 100% say that that like I wondered if I should look for an accountant where I had a little more like this is someone where I actually found it through our family like it was a family accountant and so I just went with them as well. But I hear of some of my friends who are in business that they have an accountant that's like really like accessible and like they have questions, especially with their small business and how they, you know, can best utilize or manage their like whether it's for tax purposes or whatever. So I'd be interested. That's a great question. And I'd be interested how people typically find a good accountant. Not, I wouldn't say not a good accountant, but like they're not super accessible for like if I have a little question and I know I feel a bit intimidated, even like maybe like I'm bothering them. And I think it would be great to have someone where you're like, I need to know these things to make my business financially sound or stable. Um, so yeah, I might, I might be interested also in that. If you have a guest who has a really good strategy for how to, or what do you recommend? Do you have suggestions for how to find a good accountant for your business?

Yeah, definitely. Well, for me, it's a little different because I'm in a network of CPAs and CAs. I don't know anyone specifically in Canada, but definitely in the U.S. I know people in every state and they're part of the programs that I'm in. So I'm in a membership group called Core V. We specifically do tax planning for entrepreneurs. And then I'm in another group called American Institute of Certified Tax Planners. So that also is a national group. And so I only go to these two groups when I'm making recommendations, referrals to other potential clients or people that ask me. just because I know that they've been, these firms have basically been vetted and they make a certain amount of revenue in order to be in these programs. And so I always go to those groups and make recommendations out of there, but specifically for Canada, I'm not sure.

And I think too, I could probably ask around. I haven't done that yet because I've just, you know, I'm just sort of getting things organized and they have done a good job. What I would say, what I notice is I don't necessarily talk to the actual accountant. I talk to a few different like people that work with them. So it's a different person maybe each time. And so then I'm like, oh, this is my business or like what I'm sometimes not sure how much they know about, like the last time I asked a question and I can imagine that if you had someone that really that you had been working with and developed a relationship with like I wouldn't say there's a relationship I'll just say that but not that they're doing a bad job.

Okay, got it, yeah. No, I think if you can find another tax accountant that is like sole proprietor, then you have that direct one-on-one access. That's really the benefit of working with a smaller firm. If you're working with a larger firm, well, one, you're gonna have to pay higher fees, but two, you'll probably talk to the staff accountant or the senior accountant. and you won't necessarily be able to talk with a partner. So that's the pros and cons with going with smaller firms versus medium-sized and bigger firms.

Cause I've heard that like your financial team, whoever that is, whether it's like at the bank or your accountant or your bookkeeper, like you want to have really strong connections to them so that you can ask questions and make sure you're staying on track. And I have heard that that's really important to build that team around you. So it's probably something I'm still working on.

Yeah, something to keep in mind for sure. It's hard to find the right tax accountant, but it's definitely something that you have to be on the lookout for and make sure that you're working with someone that you can work with for several years because that's when you get the most benefit because they know your situation every year. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think also, sorry, one other just little comment about that. Like when I started my first year, I wasn't sure, you know, how profitable would I be? Like, where's this business going? And what I've noticed now is it's getting more you know, growing. It's like, okay, now I really need to make sure everything like I'm building that team around my business, because I do want to build it to be continuing to grow and and really strong in the future. So it I would say in the last year is when I've started to really think more seriously about building that that team around around me and around my business.

Great, that's awesome. So here's a question not related to finances or taxes. What are you currently reading and how is it impacting you? Okay, well, there's an interesting question.

I'm reading a few things. Well, one on audio book is Inspire and Trust and Inspire. It's by Stephen Covey. It's a leadership book. And so that's really shaping also kind of the work I do with leaders. Like it's sort of like he's had a lot of things that align with the values and principles that I bring. So it's often good to have a current, it's pretty current book or relatively current, I guess. But then the other book, which is probably lots of people are saying is the Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins. I don't know if that's seemed, I see it everywhere, but really it's pretty, you know, it's pretty significant and it's been helpful to think about what are the things that I need to just like let go of and what let it go kind of and whether it's in this book talks about to it's like it could be a partner, it could be your kids, it could be your mom. Yeah, you know, what are the places that to just let it go? I have it. Yes, exactly. Okay. So you know what I'm talking about? So it's just been so like, every chapter, I'm like, wow, yeah, there's something here for me that I can really like, it's pretty, I've been applying it in my relationships. And it's, I had read it. Yeah, I would say it's been meaningful, a meaningful read, and pretty practical. Have you?

So I just bought it and I just got it over the weekend because my tax season just ended. So I was like, OK, I'm going to start reading this now. And so I just started it. So I'll let you know how it goes. But yeah, I saw it all over Amazon. I saw it at the airport. And so I was like, you know, I've got to get this book.

Yeah, exactly. I heard Mel Robbins being interviewed like on different podcasts or whatever. And so I think this was like around Christmas. And I thought, well, now I know the gist of it. Like I sort of thought I'd heard her talk about it enough that I felt like, did I even need to read the book? But I had ordered the book, I had pre-ordered it. But I let it sit for the longest time because I thought, like, what else is she going to say? I've heard her, you know, these little 30 minute snippets. Well, then when I started reading it, I thought, OK, yeah, there's more in the book than just the sound bites or the things she talks about, you know, when she's being interviewed. And so I was glad that I hadn't just kind of thought like, well, what else is she, you know how sometimes a book you read it and just like you, she could have said that, or the author could have written that in a lot, in a fraction of the book. But I feel like it's been a valuable to read the whole thing. I'm almost done, actually.

Okay, great. So do you give it five stars based on what you've read so far?

Yeah, I think I would give it a five star.

Okay, great. Yeah, no, I'm super excited to to get deeper into this book. And yeah, I'm glad that talk season is over for me so that I can focus more on reading.

Yes, I can imagine that suddenly you have a little more free time than in the last few months. And the next book I wanna read, and this came also through recommendations through the Dan Martell Group or Elite, but is The Gap and the Gain by Dan Sullivan. A number of people recommend it. Have you read that?

Yes, I have that one on my shelf over here. It's right there.

Okay, yep, I'm gonna get that one next, because a number of people have recommended it, so I'm looking forward to reading that.

Excellent, yeah, Benjamin Hardy, right?

Well, and maybe is it with it's like Dan Sullivan is there's two authors.

Yeah. Dan Sullivan with Benjamin Hardy.

Yes. Yes.

Yes. Benjamin Hardy is actually one of my favorite authors of the last couple of years. I basically have read every single one of his books. including 10X is greater than 2X. And so that's what led me to get The Gap and The Gain because I think that was like his book right after 10X. But yeah, no, I really like Benjamin Hardy and he has a YouTube channel where he has a lot of good videos about goal setting, planning, organizational leadership. I think his PhD is in organizational leadership, but he focuses on goals and how you set your goals and meet them. So I've enjoyed all of his books as well as all of his YouTube video content.

Good to know. Like, I actually hadn't made that connection that it was 10x is better than 2x because that's also on my list of Bookstreet. I didn't realize it was the same author as The Gap in the Gate.

And he also has a newsletter that I subscribe to and the questions that he poses every week are pretty thought-provoking. So you might want to sign up for his newsletter as well. Yeah, thanks for that tip. Yeah, so to wrap up, is there anything else that you would like listeners to know about starting your own business or owning your own business and how you set goals for yourself for the future?

Well, I mean, I think this will, this is a sincere and honest recommendation, but hopefully it also supports the purpose of like having people that know finances and help you with your numbers and keep on top of things has been like, I mean, I'm very genuine saying that that's been one of the most significant things. Cause it wasn't a skillset that I brought. I brought many skills and experience and things that I knew would be important. What I hadn't, didn't have expertise in was around the finances, bookkeeping, accounting, etc. So that and also signing up for that course so that I would understand, you know, the reporting, the profit loss reports, like I needed to really be, I need to understand the numbers to be profitable business. So that was one. And just to surround yourself with people who are also kind of going through similar things, even if it's not the same exact industry, but building a business or working at goals for encouragement, for support, especially if you're a sole proprietor or on your own, an entrepreneur, that you have people to like when things are challenging that you can they get it they've been there and they can kind of encourage you and also just for yeah inspiration support those anytime i've been in a community or a group of like-minded people. it can be it can be lonely right it can be a lonely journey so that those have really been powerful for me and and maybe also stretching because if they're a little farther ahead than i am um then it makes me want to step up and and work at you know growing and and becoming my best self i think so maybe i'll say one other thing three things then read good books like i really believe like if if we consume inspiring or or um information that can help us do better. Those are conversations that you don't always have every day, sort of just in your day-to-day life. So by having, you know, being around these authors who are writing really amazing books, I think that also is part of shaping the kind of business person or how you run your business. So I don't know, those are off the top of my head, but those are the ones that come to mind.

Absolutely. That's great advice. Thank you so much, Robin, for joining us on Built by Margin. We appreciate you.

Thanks, Laurie . It was really great to be here.

I appreciate it a lot. Thanks for tuning in to Built by Margin. If you're ready to turn insights into income, subscribe and join me each week as we break down the numbers behind smart business growth. I'm Laurie Chen. See you next time.